Cheaper Teslas? Chinese Threat? With Elliot Richards | Fully Charged Podcast 192 {Full Version}
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- For our last podcast of 2022 Robert wanted to catch up with ‘our man in China’ Elliot, to find out what he’s been up to and get the lowdown on all the local news.
With updates on BYD’s growing dominance, China’s grid capacity challenges, the tough times ahead for Tesla, and how by increasing their use of burning coal China are set to smash their emission targets.
Elliot also shares details on the new ‘largest wind turbine in the World’, and Robert affectionately describes a very popular and cheap EV as being ‘like the box your fridge gets delivered in!’
And finally, Robert and all the whole team at The Fully Charged SHOW hope you’ve enjoyed the podcasts in 2022 and please do stay tuned for more of the same in 2023!
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Elliot was a great addition to fullycharged
I really appreciate Elliot's reports. It is indeed to great to see the other side of China and what they are doing with renewable energy and EVs. 🙂
From Australia. Yes please to having small and cheap Electric vehicles available.
Lots of laughter at the Wuling Mini but given a bit more attention to design and safety, I see no whatsoever why a similar little EV wouldn't be phenomenally successful worldwide precisely because of all the reasons people are clamouring for smaller cars in urban/metropolitan areas. If you could pick a tiny new EV for around/between £/$/€12-15/16,000 and it will last about 10-15yrs, there would be plenty of people who'd say: "Yeah, where can I get one & how soon can you deliver it?" Those little EV's are less about ego and more about everyday practicality; city living can be stressful enough without accessibility & parking issues.
I used to nanny in London for a couple who had a Volvo station wagon. It was like driving two tanks at once! Once had to try parking it in Putney & drove around for ½ an hour looking for parking for that behemoth without success; utter nightmare!
I really value Elliot’s local knowledge of the Chinese transition to renewable energy as well as transport.
Is Eliot saying that apartment dwellers in the huge Chinese cities typically have access to a parking place with a plug so they can charge at home? I'd love it if he did a show about Chinese charging infrastructure.
Most don't. If they are lucky they have 1 allocated parking space but there's no charging in most spaces. Charging for e-bikes is more plentiful.
Eliot mentioned those new build apartments do come with charger per parking space. Most of 10 years older apartments or buildings won’t have
Ironically, most colder parts of the USA and Canada have had a similar infrastructure for decades. But in their case, it is so cold that you need a power point to connect a "block heater" to stop the vehicle engine freezing solid. There are occasionally vehicle fires related to block heaters. But many car parks and housing car ports have power sockets.
New builds or central areas flats all have it...abd now-days even in smaller cities(+ 1Mil people). I know from relatives living there and owning electric cars.
There are more than 100 cities in China with populating above 1million residents so I suspect there no "universal condition" of the charging infrastructure. It probably varies depending on the city as well as age of the apartment building
It was good to see Elliot and get his views on the current situation with EVs and the grid etc
For those who watched this episode on YT yesterday (like me), and wondered what happened to the ending, here's the full chat.
Ah, I was wondering what happened!
I was very confused: I was halfway through watching it and was going to come back later to finish it off, but couldn't find it! It wasn't in the recent videos, it wasn't in my history (as part watched).. I did find it in my podcast app, so didn't dream it, so I guess you are saying something was chopped off the end of the video version in the edit, and it had to be deleted and re-uploaded?
Excellent!
Yep, that happened to me. Wondered where it went.
I remember when Japanese motorcycles first arrived in the UK and people were questioning the build quality and longevity. They turned out to be first class. It wouldn’t surprise me if Chinese cars turn out to be just as good and just as disruptive to the car industry as Japanese motorcycles were to the bike industry. Great show as usual
Here in the US there was about 20 years of hate for Japanese-built cars and then in the 80s they just completely took over the market and US companies struggled to figure out how to build cars like the Japanese. I suspect we will see the same thing with Chinese cars but at a much accelerrated rate. Once a $20k EV is available nobody is going to care that its Chinese.
@@patreekotime4578 Yes there is another youtuber named Sandy Munroe an he echoes your remarks about Japanese cars taking over the USA Market and he estimates that the Chinese will completely murder the local industry. The only one standing will probably be Tesla when the Chinese decide to start exporting. the same goes for Europe and the UK.
@@ouethojlkjn European and American manufacturers have survived the Japanese, they will probably survive Chinese competition. Price is just one component.
if the gov can impose restrictions they will be just fine;)
@@bikeman123 I hope they do survive - but this is a very very different ball game to what has happened in the past. China skipped the "compete on combustion engine" game and went straight for the BEV. Decades of experience building superb diesel vehicles won't cut it anymore. No one wants them and you can't sell them in China. The danger from the Chinese is not that they build a better or cheaper alternative - they are building fantastic BEVs right now. The Volvo Polestar II is a Chinese vehicle. They build everything from a cheap BEV city runabout to Hypercars. Incidentally, did you know VW have been building and selling tens of thousands of BEVs for years? You can only buy one if you are Chinese. European and American manufacturers will ONLY survive if they get on with building and selling EVs right now. Like Hyundai and Kia, Chinese cars are not a cheap knocked together alternative if you cant afford anything else.
Coal output is increased, but they're using newer coal technologies as they retire less efficient stations, so it's not as bad as before.
Fantastic Eliott is coming to FCL Sydney, looking forward to seeing you both there. Elliot is key to this region rather than flying correspondences/reviewers all over the world like Jack to South Korea.
Seeing BYD Atto 3 in regional Australia. Looks great on outside. Expecting to see many many more soon.
Looking forward to FCL, can't wait 😀👍
Smaller vehicles have their place, but so do larger behemoths. I live in Canada, and we just experienced a 3 day blizzard along with much of the north eastern USA. My wife who is a health care worker had to go out in the storm because sick people don't wait for a storm. She was very pleased to drive our four wheel drive pickup truck with high road clearance its large heavy size. It is our intention to purchase an EV but it will not likely be a 'refrigerator box". Love your show. Keep up the good work keeping us informed and up to date on EVs.
Many in China buy hybrid ev with engine and a battery with 100~200km range for such purposes. You can always fill up the tank when you need to drive in a storm. And just use the battery for regular every day commute.
Choose the right vehicle for the job. You wouldnt wear rollerskates to go skiing
Great job again BUT can we please, when talking about ev numbers 🙏 use only B E V numbers not not clean energy vehicles ( BYD ) !
Top podcast, keep up with great work 👍
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
Enjoyed watching this! Quality.
Will be great to see Elliot in Sydney next year!!
great to see Eliot! Like it or not....we need to be together as a world so we can win this climate change battle.
If you live in a Chinese high rise, where do you park and is there any provision for power. High rise "houses?" have so many apartments, is the parking under ground?.
I’ve only discovered your channel in the last couple of months but in loving it so good luck with the spinal surgery!
Looking forward to it being a success and seeing you fit and well real soon!
Take it easy and make vids again when all is well!
Thanks for all the content!
Tesla Model 3 UK price £40k ? In your dreams they start at £47,500
An hour later it's £48,490. Blimey! I knew inflation was bad, but…
Chinese M3 price is £31,400k as of Dec 2022
@@simonyapp yes they said £21-23k 🤣
I was recently surprised watching Best in Tesla, where Lars compared features and prices of BYD Han and Tesla Model 3. At similar trim levels, the Han was MORE expensive than the Model 3, and a little behind in every spec. I had thought BYD had a price edge, but apparently not in Europe. Check his video.
Lars is a Tesla shill. Han leather trims/ massage seats with it's car dimensions is directly comparable to the Tesla MS. If he had taken the example of the Tesla MS and compared it with the M3 Long range it would arrive at the same conclusion. Compare it with the Seal which is the same class as the M3 and see what you end up with. It's like comparing the Atto3 at nearly half the price of the Tesla MY and conclude the range/0-100 performance of the Atto3 is more or less equal, thus Atto3 wins hands down.
It would be interesting to know why the town that Elliots wife came from have gone from expensive imports to indigenous EVs. If it was just that they are electric, you might have expected them to switch to Teslas, so is it that the local makes now compare favourably to the premium imports on quality and style as well as being electric? I would love to see a compilation episode of some of the obscure cars Elliot mentioned.
Chinese car buyers favoring local EV brands also has something to do with Chinese people's rising confidence in "Made in China" product in general. Made in China product might be considered poor quality not long ago in China. But many people have overcame that mentality and become very savvy in whatever they buy. After all, you get what you pay for. As the result, the brand premium of many foreign product shrinks, not just in cars. In addition, Chinese people genuinely believe that local EV are superior to EV from legacy foreign makers. Not long ago, there was a Chinese internet meme going viral where an EV buyer was laughed at by a Tesla salesperson for buying a sub-par Mercedes EV. Mercedes EQ series and Audi e-tron series are both selling very poorly in China.
@@dt8101 This was precisely what I suspected, thanks. The rest of the world had better look out, the Chinese are coming!
From what I have seen of the new EVs made in China, many have much more fancy luxurious interiors compared to Tesla’s minimalist interiors. I would call some of them baroque. Not to everyone’s taste, I prefer Tesla’s style, but many people prefer the fancy baroque style.
I fully agree with Robert’s comments at the end, I also really enjoy the glimpse of China and review of EVs available there in Elliot’s videos.
My experience as someone who lived in China until a few months ago: There were many power cuts this summer and the summer of 2021 due to heatwaves and drought creating massive demand for aircon and reducing supply of hydroelectricity. It didn't directly affect me because my area didn't have a heatwave, but it defintely happened and that is why many more coal power stations are being built for future such situations. This happened despite the government ordering many factories to cease production for days at a time. And as for EV chargers, yes new malls all have chargers in their car parks (about 10-20% of spaces I would estimate based on the malls I visited) but I have never saw a car plugged in and charging in those spaces so I don't know if they are actually switched or are just to meet building codes and then left switched off. There were no chargers in our apartment complex, so nearly all of the thousands of people who lived there used petrol cars.
A few month ago is an eternity? Things move fast. Very fast. My last visit to Shenzhen was in October 2019, went back this October and found another city. Charging (mandatory, it is difficult to get an ICE car registered) was never an issue, Taxis, even city buses, all of them, run electric. Did not cut down on the noise as I would have thought but it helped. Pollution way down, everybody and there dog scooting everywhere electric. You can swap or charge batteries for your scooter or bike everywhere with a bar code on your phone.
When I got back here to Barcelona last week, I felt like going on a time warp.
I think here in Europe they do not even know what´s going to hit them.
@@chrisspain I miss the Shenzhen's old ICE Kia taxi in red color. EV taxi makes me car sick. Acceleration and braking/regen are just too strong. I know many people who get car sick in an EV taxi.
@@chrisspain yeh, Shenzhen has fantastic electric vehicle stuff, but as the most modern and high tech model city in China, it is not very representative of the rest of the country. Where I lived getting a petrol car registered was no problem at all and many of the buses and taxis are still ICE
@@dt8101 I agree, I don't like being passenger in any car, but electric is the worst for car sickness, especially a powerful one or one with a driver who hasn't adapted their driving style to electric.
I love this this liesuly duscusion. Looks like you guys are just hanging out on the couches with beer.
Great discussion and thanks for this.
I'm not sure if this is true but one Chinese car parts supplier was talking about Tesla pricing last September saying:"Tesla actually likes to lower their prices now but they cannot get their new prices approved because it would put pressure to the competition such as NIO and xPeng which are struggling to make profit. Tesla likes to adjust their pricing according to factory production and they are getting more efficient all the time. Their business model is to produce the car and collect the full payment within couple of days, no dealers."
Tesla still #1 on pure electric cars sold worldwide. BYD is #1 only if you count hybrids, which are NOT EV. BYD 685K, Tesla 910K in 3 quarters.
No normal person can possibly care about this.....
For how long? The question isnt who is the biggest yesterday, its who will be the biggest tomorrow. There is no way Tesla will be able to compete long term with a company backed by the Chinese government. Especially not with the CEO mired in nonsense.
BYD is growing so fast, they will overtake Tesla ev sales this year.
@@nordic5490 BYD is half as good as a Tesla & will probably devalue much faster than a reliable Tesla.
Elliot is a rock star
The good news for people wanting to buy an EV is that used EVs are falling in price at last. I'm sure I won't be the first to point out that the cheapest Tesla new in the UK is £48450 at the time of commenting.
Out of Interest I looked at the VW website (UK) and disappointingly there is only ONE ID.3 version to choose from, no motor option, or battery option or even trim option. A whopping £38,640 configured as near as possible to the base model 3. They even charge you £160 for a granny cable. Prices across the board need to drop considerably. I would be looking at an MG4
Our factory is in Guangzhou and has been dealing with all sorts of power availability issues, they've been banned from using A/C and told to work different hours.
They have the 'arts warehouses' in China too - re-purposing those older factories that moved out of the cities :)
Heck, they even moved a steel works out of the suburbs of Beijing, and used the site for the winter Olympics...it was really 'steam punk', and interesting :D
I always can't stop myself thinking when you mention the political comments on any thing related to China, when you talk about a British company, do the same people mention flying refugees to Rwanda or a home secretary that wants to push boats of vulnerable people back into the sea? I could add a lot more but you get my point.
No problem with the local grid but you need three phase to get above 7kw chargers. If you are looking to charge domestic batteries as well during a small low cost tariff window there is a problem.
My Chinese Model 3 has been perfect for the past 12 months. Fit and finish is better than my friends Porsche Macan. Love my Tesla.
Thank you
On one of Sandy Munro's vids he said that Chairman Xi at an event he was also speaking at.
Xi said that he wanted the 300+ car makers down to 150.
He did a video on the Skywell SUV and loved it.
It is interesting if you remember the old top gear china episode aired just over 10 years ago.
Always good to see my favourite presenter, even though he can pronounce porsche taycan proper like😉
It has been a long time since my last visit to China but many major cities were suffering severely from car mediated air pollution. Has the large scale adoption of ev's mitigated this at all?
Utilisation factor for on shore wind 20% off shore 40% and sometimes we get weeks of not a lot of wind and no solar. What apart from nuclear and gas can take UK the slack?
I read somewhere that they're building coal power stations that are 'upgradable' to nuclear to some degree...the turbines, for example, are pretty much identical.
Something that wasn't covered in today's show is how have the rapid adoption of EV's in China impacted air quality, healthcare need/services/cost thereof and by extension, economic output? I'm interested because there's really no way to seperate these into distinctly different categories as they directly impact on one another; the jigsaw effect. The direct correlation between air quality, healthcare needs and economic output is rarely understood by the public at large.
I know from my cousin who visits China on business regularly, the air quality in cities like Shanghai improved very quickly. But its not just EVs, they have brought in much stricter rules for manufacturing and pollution from factories.
@@dougowt That's very interesting. Going back almost 40yrs ago, I remember a Kiwi work colleague telling me about when she was living and working in London they still had the city's famous pea soupers due to the amount of smog from coal and wood burning for heating, electricity generation and industry. Battersea Power Station right in the heart of London; you'd never get approval for such a beast nowadays if coal was still the dominant energy source.
I think international coverage of the air quality problems in China directly impacted the decision to make it a national goal to go electric and renewable. As Elliot says, coal appears to be a stopgap energy solution while replacing an aging fleet of very polluting diesel vehicles with EVs has had an exponential impact on air quality. There has also been some pushback in China from the general public about both air and water quality. If this continues, China may face the problems that we faced in the 1970s, which is that making factories cleaner makes them more expensive. I suspect we will see a bigger push towards outsourcing manufacturing where Chinese firms locate new factories in poorer countries like Laos to take advantage of the lack of regulation... just as we did with China 40 years ago.
@@patreekotime4578 You could well be right about the outsourcing. However, (mainly) western brands' customers are starting to ask questions about their products' carbon footprint, and since most stuff tends to be made in China irrespective of which label has been slapped on which product, Chinese customers' customers' demands and the very real prospect of carbon import tariffs to gain entry the likes of the EU and UK marketplaces, could stand to dramatically change Chinese manufacturers attitudes towards their business strategies.
@@pinkelephants1421 China is ripe to exploit any carbon tariff scheme if its based on carbon credits. They can plant trees with the best of them.
2:40 Robert 😆 you pull some cracking faces
Great episode!
We love our MG5! Can't recommend it enough.
Isnt the MG5 a fwd ? Ie, an adapted fwd ice platform. Not ideal.
The MG4 is rwd is designed as an ev from a ground up.
You really do have an international show these days.
I've seen big solar installations in the mountains to the NE of Beijing...whole sides of mountains covered. Also, big wind farms up there too.
...and when I visited XinJiang too - lots of nodding donkeys, of course, but also lots of solar and wind.
redundant coal capacity in China is a strategic reserve in case of war
Touching on the political side of the debate. As you pointed out Chinese customers love to support their brands and the government is also supporting them. Meanwhile, Europens and Americans love to put down and criticize our brands. This is in my opinion the biggest lesson we can learn from the Chinese. Before we jump into buying anyone’s cars let’s support our European and American brands to ensure that we create jobs and develop all the necessary supply chain elements to avoid history repeating itself when the world grew addicted to Oil from the Middle East which have only created conflicts and geopolitical tensions. Me personally, living in the US I will only consider buying a Tesla or an American made car, just like your collaborator bought a Xpeng, Chinese made.
I bet you just typed that on a Chinese made device, amd that your house is full of Chinese made products. I think you are more afraid to be seen in a Chinese made car.
Some Atto 3's are showing up with pretty nasty rust.... this needs to be fixed. No matter how cheap the car might be, if it rusts NO-BODY is going to want it. I just watched a Sam Evans ( Electric Viking) video on this. There is NO EXCUSE for this these days.
I've heard multiple issues with the Chinese grid going down in the last year. Rolling blackouts, coal shortages. Hard to know though because discussion is limited by the central government.
Where did you "hear" that from? And what parts of China are you talking about? I have many friends living in Chengdu - they haven't experienced anything there as far as power shortages.
@@jeffwyatt590 Peter zeihan. A geopolitical analyst.
@@jasonsstratton Really? Or someone who thinks he'll get a big following by making up lies about China? Well, time will tell!
@@jasonsstrattonPeter Zeihan is literally paid to make rumors about China. I don’t even know if he’s been in China for the last 10 years. Most of what he says about China is probably worthy of a double-check, to say the least.
@@jeffwyatt590 I started listening to Peter about 10 years ago. Back then he was suggesting Russia would invade Ukraine. China is in the midst of demographic collapse. The one child policy was a huge mistake. The real estate market is currently collapsing, they have entire ghost cities filled with buildings that have nobody in them, that are currently rotting, and way overvalued, and much of their economy is leveraged on the worth of empty rotting real estate.
Most of what people call wheel arch protection is erroneous, the wheel arches rust from the back side out and if you take a 10 year old car and remove the wheel arch cladding you will most likely find rust.
lovely show as always
Demand is there for Tesla, just not many can afford the price. £60k for a car is more than the cost of my house. I'm looking to buy a model Y with my redundancy but even that doesn't cover the cost. It needs to drop by £15k at least. Hard to sell on cost savings too when Electricity cost is so high in UK. Even model 3 extended range is nearly 3 times that of China model.
I wondered if the price reductions were planned as production was scaled up in the Shanghi plant. They need to careful not to give the impression that they are discounting as it could kill demand, you know, fickle customers.
Tesla now sell a rear wheel only Model Y in the UK for just less than £52k. It is still a huge amount but probably competitive with other EV equivalents. There are also many 2nd hand Teslas for sale and as Jack on this channel said (and I agree) - The Model S is something of a bargain.
Tesla is in chaos with prices and demand dropping. Musk is politicising and destroying the brand. Best avoided for now.
@@AlanTov Probably why they sold 140k more units than BMW in America in 2022. Demand might indeed be dropping, but don't assume the rest of the Industry isn't going the same way. Artificial inflated income from constrained supply over supposed Chips shortages isn't going to wash anymore in 2023. Something that did not seem to constrain that mobile computer seller named Tesla.
The simple reason why Tesla cut cost is they have a huge profit margin and decided 2023 was the right time to kick off a price war. This is why ALL the auto stocks tanked on the day Tesla announced price cuts. There might be some sour grapes there as well over the USA somehow classifying the Model Y (along with the likes of the Mustang Mach-E) and not being entitled to the latest $7500 tax break with the price drop now meaning the Model Y DOES qualify for this incentive.
Compared to other similar EVs, Teslas are something of a bargain going into 2023. Let's see if the competitors respond with similar price cuts of their own (don't hold your breath).
@@AlanTov You might be right (but I hope not). My first thoughts were that the price drops were the result of the massive production increases brought about because of Shanghai, Berlin and Texas factories coming on line and getting past the recent turmoil in the supply chains. Tesla have been been promising price reductions for a good while, I assumed they had been as good as their word. I think they could have done it more sensibly though, to just knock several grand off prices at a stroke not only upsets customers who have just bought at the old price, and owners who see their second hand values drop, but also feeds the thought that there is something wrong when there may not be.
Sounds like the MG5 is one of those cars that just works well without all the extra techy nonsense.
Could be my next car ?
I just got one as a loan car ,so far I’ve done a trip to Bristol from Sussex in -4 C , I got 170 mile range and charging at around 40Kw with no battery pre heating. I’ve now learnt to turn on battery pre heating as found it in the cars menu,
Next trip we are on is up to County - Durham and the weather has warmed up to 14’c. We are now getting 210 mile range and with battery pre heating on 45 mins before rapid charging it’s charging faster.
It’s offers lots of space and the pro pilot is pretty good as long as the camera is clear.
It is very quick as well. On a wet road you can’t floor it as it just slips.
Def a good family car. Just needs a app support for remote heating / charging which I think the 23 year model comes with.
Hope you get one.
Hey Simon, I am also planning to get the MG5 or the Atto3 BYD if it is coming to the UK.
Don't forget the seven year "everything" warranty for peace of mind and wallet! If I was not already an EV owner I would be either getting the MG5 Long Range or the MG4 Long Range. Good Luck!
The MG5 is fwd ( a crime in an ev) due to being an adapted ice platform.
The MG4 is a ground up designed rwd ev (good).
The BYD Seal is rwd (good) whereas the Atto3 is fwd (bad).
Most industries in uk that went to China had already failed due to poor management and poor government control
Is the Woo Ling popular with the wooling classes?
Really happy with my MG5 an excellent car, no OTT features, just simple usable ones and buttons for main controls. Would certainly recommend getting one
One issue I would have is after watching one being driven up a long steep hill. The energy use hit 289 Watt hrs per Km and then froze. This is just over 2 miles per KWh. However by looking at other readings it was clearly getting through 650 Watt hrs /Km or 0.9 miles per KWh. The tester said the car was lying to you by showing false numbers. It also seemed very gutless and kept slowing down as the hill got steeper. He had his foot hard on the floor almost the entire way. One explanation is the MG5 has a particularly flat (physical) battery with associated restricted cooling. When it starts getting too hot power is reduced and hence performance. During the climb battery capacity dropped from over 70% to 54%. That was the giveaway that other numbers were faked.
Elliot, do you still have the Mengo? Would love to import one, maybe swap 25kw rear motor with the 35kw front or even just add for 2 motor 4WD. That would be a fun project.
How does the Seal compare with the Xpeng?
Good evening Elliot
Something nice to fall asleep to at the states
The bud seal looks really good, but in Europe where will the support come from?
I wish someone had fact-checked this chat as every few minutes I am like “ehh? That can’t be right…”
Elliot didn’t exaggerate anything. 😅You may want to check more resources if you wonder how accurate was his statement about EVs and China.
China is suffering power shortages. Your interviewer is not up to date.
Challenger might be the right term and in the end we see some tiny movement if you check the MG 4 carefully.
The twingo and dacia spring are small cheaper ones but they are missing all the stuff you could have gotten from the e-up before corona, the 2020 edition. Now the prices have exploded.
Great video guys
Thanks
Cheap Chinese cars are all well and good but what about the 'balloon' payment. Bit intrusive isn't it ?
Do you have a reference for the Tesla with huge amount of miles same battery?
Model 3 refresh underway
Yep the project name is Highland and will be announced soon - probably January
Considering that the Model S refresh was to make it look more like the Model 3, I cant imagine it will be dramatic enough to turn any heads. Heck, the Model S refresh is barely noticable from the exterior and no lay person would even see a difference.
Price in China for tesla includes subsidy from Chinese government , Tesla having no major difficulties selling all it makes . Main problem for tesla is getting the cars out of China by boat . Model 2 will kill the industry for little advantage to tesla . Easier for tesla to drop price of older model 3 which will improve in next year to be cheaper to build and more profitable . Nio not profitable , BYD only making minor profits and the rest loosing money on every ev . Foreign production of evs also non prifitable
Chinese subsidies for EV ends this year (2022). There are still VAT waivers for EV though.
The China subsidy is not even 5% of the car price, as DT said, they are stopping it as there are lots of budget version available in China
Nope. In the biggest ev market in the world, in China in Dec 2022 Tesla delivered 44% less vehicles to dealers (how it works in China) than in Nov 2022, and a 21% drop from the same period the previous year. This comes at a time when Chinese rival are experiencing sizzling growth, with NEV (new energy vehicles = hybrids + evs).
Tesla does have a design studio based in China, and I think they will need to accelerate the design of the new affordable ev as a matter of priority.
People in China buy EVs when they wouldn't otherwise buy a ICE car...so it does mean there are more cars overall, and so emissions do go up. The incentives have been adjusted to affect the demand appropriately.
I agree with Robert that automotive startups almost all go bankrupt and disappear. However there are exceptions other than Tesla, most right after WWII: Porsche, Ferrari, SAAB, Honda come to mind. Granted SAAB is no longer with us, but they had a very long run of over 50 years. A bit later Hyundai and Kia. And now there are a lot of new auto companies in China, some of which will thrive and persist. BYD surely will be one of them.
Most profitable companies graphs went down sharp recently not only Tesla's. Moreover they're in position to cut prices as they were on high margins.
No. Apple, Google and Amazon didnt crash. Fyi, Apple has a market cap 5.5x more than Tesla, Google 3x more than Tesla.
Teslas stock price was a house of cards. I dont think Teslas share price will recover. 1yr ago TSLA was 60xPE, ie, astronomically high compared to another solid manufacturer of 6xPE
Tesla got away with selling odd looking 'bull frog' shaped 3 and Y cars when they were the only ev game in town, but now Tesla will have to update their current models to remain competitive. BYD is even with Tesla in cars sold, and BYD will certainly over take Tesla in 2023.
In the biggest ev market in the world, in China in Dec 2022 Tesla delivered 44% less vehicles to dealers (how it works in China) than in Nov 2022, and a 21% drop from the same period the previous year. This comes at a time when Chinese rival are experiencing sizzling growth, with NEV (new energy vehicles = hybrids + evs).
Tesla does have a design studio based in China, and I think they will need to accelerate the design of the new affordable ev as a matter of priority.
And of course, Musk himself pissed of the core demographic that built Tesla - well heeled cashed up Lefties from California - who are now embarrassed to drive a Tesla, following Musks antics and changes to Twitter. Musk also reassigned top Tesla FSD software engineers to work on Twitter code. That did hurt the TSLA stock price. Investors are furious with Musk, amd quite rightly so.
@@nordic5490 drove mamy EVs and nothing can match Tesla performance, range and charging infrastructure. BYD is talking about cheap cars for years but still nothing cheap in Europe so far. Tesla was selling at high margins they have plenty to shave of while competition don't. Also Tesla in not available on many Asian markets where Chinese are selling for years already. Recently they introduced TM3/Y in Thailand and Chinese cars preorders were immediately cancelled and switched to Tesla. Also Tesla is not only about cars.
The Reowe Ei5 or MG5 is actually doing battery swaps in Shanghai now.
Tesla is amazing & will remain king for so long & for so many reasons. Smart people will just buy Tesla's because they're a very very good car.
The Chinese aren't hampered by our refusal to use coal and other fossil fuels.
16:00 battery replaced 3 times? Dude, burnt down my house 4 times in 2 years!!!! Waiting on my new Hummer, when charging that beast should be able to knock out the grid for a 50 mile radius. Truck driver Habeeb, in his new Tesla Semi has been hijacked twice already and had his $250,000 Megawatt battery pack lifted leaving him stranded on a dark UK highway.
"I'm always wrong"
"Sydneys going to be amazing"
Oh oh
He said Tesla model 3 was £23k in China. According to sources I’ve seen it’s $39k. Did he misspeak?
Any news on the new Geely electric Cadillac suv type vehicle?
The car with the rotating screen, that dude was throwing shade at, is a better value then BYD. #Fisker FTW!
Nukes need to be offline for 2 years? No. The average in the USA is being offline for 40 days every 18 months primarily to refuel but also for maintenance and checks
Some of the better reactors are closer to 25 days per 18 months
It's per 18 months as most reactors are designed for a fuel load of 18 months
Could Elliot go and have a look at the new nuclear builds done in China in the last 10 years.
And maybe some of the dam and solar projects.
And so much BS about nuclear in this episode again, such a lack of engineering.
The maintenance is very different and not 2 years at all, at 10 years they go into refurbishing with improvements to production capacity and uptime.
Invite the energyprof for example.
China just started operating the 2nd largest hydropower station 1 month ago
Main structure of world's 2nd largest hydropower station - Baihetan hydropower station - completed (2022)
ruclips.net/video/ClIHBxMGSdk/видео.html
GLOBALink | China's Baihetan hydropower station in full operation (2023)
ruclips.net/video/WLsntHDG5Rg/видео.html
47:30 Japan is actually quite bigger than most European countries smh
Japan- 377,975 square kilometers
UK- 244,820 square kilometres
Take 2 much better very interesting insight into chinese power grid
£3k for a car, not in UK, what battery size is that.sounds like we need to see some images of all these smaller cars, can Elliot pick a fiesta replace Kent for the UK now Ford don,t make them!
I read last year that goods are no longer made in China on behalf of western countries because the labour is cheap. Chinese wages have risen to the point that China is now having goods made in Africa, because the labour there is so cheap.
They are also investing heavily in the African countries too.
Great
Here is no reason for Tesla to redesign the model 3. They should make minor improvements only. Form follows function. The US went through the 3 or 4 year cycle….tail fins, chrome. Remember the VW Beetle. To some eyes it was ugly but the basic car remained the same and was successful. When Tesla brought out the model 3 and t had no grill people thought it was a huge mistake. I love my 2021 model 3. This coming year Tesla will change the headlights and make minor necessary changes to the rear end. Fine.
Love to know what side off the road they are driving in Hong Kong these days?
According to the Car News China Tesla increased the price of the Model 3 RWD in November by 1.9% to the equivalent of USD 39k! Not sure where £23k comes from and less than £40k in the UK. Even if they cut the price in December surely not by so much. Fully Charged should really know the facts!
Just a thought, In reality Chinese EV manufacturers are not competing against Tesla. They are competing against ice car manufacturers. Teslas third generation platform is going to illuminate ,ice car manufacturers dilemma’s, on manufacturing and Profit.🤔IMO
An interesting video which shows the value of manufacturing rather than looking at balance sheets to make a select few rich.
I was educated and trained by a UK Telecoms and Electronics company who invented many, many, of the technology and devices we all use but don’t even realise exist today. The UK and USA have concerns about spy technology potentially coming from China. If the technologies we had were not sold off for the gain of a few this would not be an issue.
For a while I worked for a European company based in what is thought to have a high moral / socialist ethic. They moved most manufacturing to, (corporate BW warning) “a best cost country” because labour was 20% of the cost of a European worker with less red tape regulation.
Well done China for taking every gift given and playing the long game.
Are the ICE fuel suppliers & electricity suppliers in China both fully state owned?
I.e. No battle between them because ICE fuel loss is electrics' gain.
I was under the impression that everything is at least partially state owned. Thats why it doesnt matter to build a coal plant that looses money and is only planned to operate for a few years. As long as it generates the government energy quotas it doesnt need to turn a profit.
Hmm, all three oil producers are state owned. They are the ones doing the actual drilling, refinement and import of oil. However, gas stations are open to private investors. State Grid is state owned. But power generators allow private investors if I'm not wrong. IMO, utilities (including electricity) should be state owned. Utilities shouldn't make huge profit off people's basic human needs.
Corrosion in the wheel arches, sounds like a euphemism akin to bats in the belfry. I will, henceforth, use it at every opportunity. They have ointment for that, is the obvious retort.
No Robert, a model 3 is £48k in the UK !!!!!
Actually, £48, 490!
Just a note about Tesla price drops. In China there have been price drops so certain cars qualify for Government grants. The same thing may happen in the USA. It is not necessarily because they cannot sell cars. I am also somewhat dismayed to hear Robert still going on about build quality issues for Tesla. I have a 2019 Fremont Series 1 Model 3 and it is absolutely straight and rattle free. The only noise is the unused front passenger seat belt tapping against the side of the seat. My wife bought herself a Model Y from China in June this year and it is perfect. However, I do think sales may be slowing up simply because everything is slowing up. As most sales in the West are not sales at all, just leased (posh word for rented), people can decide to pay off and keep their current car and not go for a brand new one.
Just because you have bought a Tesla that seems to have been put together right, doesn't means that the many reports of owners taking delivery of their brand new Tesla with panel gaps that look like Blind George fitted the doors, and painted the body, and put the interior in too.
The quality can be so bad that Tesla won't let their cars be included in quality reviews like the one conducted by JD Power...
@@koitorob Yeah they missed a trick there, Tesla need some panel gap defeat software like VW has. Or was that emissions cheat software? Anyway, they want to copy the established players like BMW, VW, Audi and Porsche. Ok so they got fined over a billion dollars between them for colluding over emissions but check out those sick panel gaps.
Nope. In the biggest ev market in the world, in China in Dec 2022 Tesla delivered 44% less vehicles to dealers (how it works in China) than in Nov 2022, and a 21% drop from the same period the previous year. This comes at a time when Chinese rivals are experiencing sizzling growth, with NEV (new energy vehicles = hybrids + evs).
Tesla does have a design studio based in China, and I think they will need to accelerate the design of the new affordable ev as a matter of priority.
@@nordic5490 Just out of interest, where are you getting these percentages from? I do think that China car manufacturers are the biggest rival Tesla has in the EV space. And it is even worse for "traditional auto". Tesla sales might have fallen (bearing in mind they could have been over target earlier in the year) but I expect all non Chinese car sellers have seen similar declines. Tesla novelty value might be wearing off - there are so many of them on the roads now.
Chinese EVs built for export are superb cars and a match for any other. The Polestar 2 is basically a Chinese car. MG is a great effort. I suspect Tesla won't care if sales drop off in China, as long as there are markets to export them to for better margins. I agree that if not already, Tesla need to look to a more affordable model for their range, they cannot expect to endlessly sell M3 and MY in such numbers as they have been doing.
Personally, I don't agree with conflating EVs with Hybrids as you are still getting a fossil fuel car with all the cost associated with it. It has also resulted in some pretty inexplicable situations with regard to the recent USA car grant scheme.
Sandy Monroe did an episode where he pretty much ranted at the USA auto industry, warning them of what was coming from China. Along the lines of "if you think the Japanese ate your lunch, well you have not seen anything yet". This goes as much for Tesla as anyone else.